[BC] LPFM vs. AM on FM Translators

[Bailey, Scott]

Willie,
   It must be so congested up there, that you are trying to tell me you
can't use one of the Class C's at night?  You would go Omni Directional
at night, at 1 KW, and can't you cover your community of license on a
Class C, let's exclude 1490!
   OR....if the X-Band is reorganized, you can't do 1 KW, omni at night
on one of those channels?
   On Class C channels, as the FCC has pointed out on their web site,
these channels are subject to massive interference at night, as every
station on the channel is at 1 KW. There are very few exceptions. To me,
just to cover COL, a Class IV channel should give you a good hole of 5-8
miles. Let's take IBUZ out of the whole picture on this now!
   I wanted to do this, go to 1400 during the experimental period, 12 AM
to 5 AM, change frequency from 1560 to 1400, drive around at 1 AM and
just see what my coverage was at 250 watts, and see if it would cover my
COL. This would be a good experiment for me!  Now remember, what's in
our computer databases and on paper vs. reality is two different things.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: broadcast-bounces at radiolists.net
[mailto:broadcast-bounces at radiolists.net] On Behalf Of WFIFeng at aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:55 AM
To: broadcast at radiolists.net
Subject: Re: [BC] LPFM vs. AM on FM Translators

In a message dated 07/21/2006 08:45:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
SBailey at nespower.com writes:

> A. Allow the datytimer to switch frequencies at night to a Class C
(Old
>  Class IV), Local Channel at night, 1230,1240,1340,1400,1450, or 1490.
>  What ever will work. With all these stations running 1 KW at night on
>  these channels, what difference does it make about interference?

That sounds an awful lot like what the AM IBUZ proponents must be
thinking... 
"With so much interference on AM already, who cares if we run high-power

white noise generators?! What difference will it make?" The stations
already on 
those frequencies would certainly raise a stink, and rightly so. When
(if?) WTWP 
fires-up IBUZ, there will be a lot of 1490's affected. The 1510 in
Boston 
will, as well, and if they ever fire-up IBUZ, WTWP will have to deal
with it, 
too. Urg!

>  B. Allow stations with flea powers to run 125 watts at night, PERIOD.
>  In a case like WFIF (Willie's deal), he could have 125 watts through
his
>  directional pattern. Make WTWP (was WTOP) accept what little
>  interference that would cause, which in my mind, it wouldn't bother
them.

A nice idea, but in our case, it wouldn't help. WTWP's signal,
typically, 
ranges from 1-5mv/m during summer nights. It can peak around 10. In
winter, it's 
much higher, averaging 5-10, with peaks to 20. I've seen it happen many
times! 
At my home, about 12 air miles from WFIF, in our major lobe, I get 7mv/m
when 
we are at 5Kw. When we drop to 500, that goes down to 1/3, about 2.3mv.
On 
many winter afternoons at 4:30 when we drop, it's as though we just
signed-off. 
Before 4:30 in winter, WTWP already starts battering our signal
mercilessly, 
but once we drop to 500watts, it's *completely* buried.

Here's one for our math gurus out there... at 125 watts, what would be
the 
distance to a relatively interference-free contour at 1500Khz on a 1.0
ground 
conductivity path, with a 5 to 10mv/m undesired co-channel signal? I'm
guessing 
less than 2000 feet. What would be the range at 5Kw? Maybe a mile or so?

As long as WTWP operates full power on 1500, it's hopeless for us at
night. A 
new frequency would be our only viable option. Good luck in that regard,

though. With LI just across the Sound, NYC not far away, and a 1/2 dozen
medium 
markets surrounding us, "open" frequencies in this area are like hen's
teeth.

Check this out:

http://www.v-soft.com/ZipSignal/zip_answer.asp

Enter 06460 for the ZIP, and you'll see 78 stations. (Oddly, some are
listed 
twice. Others seperately for day/night.) That's a lot of signals, but
those 
are only part of the story! There are many more with weaker but still
very 
listenable signals here. (Last I counted, there are 100 listenable
signals, AM & 
FM, on my car radio.)

>  C. Clean up the X-Band, and take aleast two of those channels and
make
>  them Class C (Class IV channels for nighttime operation for
daytimers.

That would probably be the next most workable, but thus next least
likely 
solution.

>     It's not just small o & o's that operated daytime only stations,
but
>  Clear Channel has some daytime only stations, as well as Cumulus.
Peter
>  Davidson's, Davidson Media operates one here in this market on 880.
He
>  has to turn it off at night to protect WCBS-AM in NYC. As much money
as
>  Peter's group paid for that 2.5 KW daytimer, I'm sure he would love
to
>  see it get some nighttime relief.

His situation is probably quite similar to ours... at night, I am sure
that 
WCBS' flamethrower bombards his market with multi-millivolt signals at
night.

Willie...
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